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	<title>Comments on: Three students begin hunger strike late Tuesday, Dec.8</title>
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		<title>By: annon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>annon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-458</guid>
		<description>My only problem with the hunger strike (problem in that I would chose not to support it personally) is that hunger strikes are traditionally a last resort for a very dire situation, one which the striker feels so passionate about they are generally willing to die if their demands are not met.

I would ask the hunger strikers if this is in fact a cause they are willing to, quite literally, starve themselves for.  If not, I think it becomes very easy to view their actions as a childish temper tantrum; &quot;I won&#039;t eat until you give me what i want...or until I get hungry.&quot;  

I would also ask them why they would chose such a drastic protest strategy for an issue like this; of all the problems and travesties that could currently be addressed, starving to try and save the jobs of thirteen well educated, very employable and most likely economically secure (relatively speaking) employees at a private institution, many of which will be rehired at the school or have already found other jobs, does not seem like one worth potentially hurting yourself and starving for.  

In true, earnest interest, I would be interested in finding out.  Hearing exactly why the strikers feel so passionately about this issue might be constructive for the community, and I would certainly like to learn more about the thought process that went into the protest; in the midst of all these posts, I feel like that is one of the few things I havn&#039;t learned, and what I would consider the most important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My only problem with the hunger strike (problem in that I would chose not to support it personally) is that hunger strikes are traditionally a last resort for a very dire situation, one which the striker feels so passionate about they are generally willing to die if their demands are not met.</p>
<p>I would ask the hunger strikers if this is in fact a cause they are willing to, quite literally, starve themselves for.  If not, I think it becomes very easy to view their actions as a childish temper tantrum; &#8220;I won&#8217;t eat until you give me what i want&#8230;or until I get hungry.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I would also ask them why they would chose such a drastic protest strategy for an issue like this; of all the problems and travesties that could currently be addressed, starving to try and save the jobs of thirteen well educated, very employable and most likely economically secure (relatively speaking) employees at a private institution, many of which will be rehired at the school or have already found other jobs, does not seem like one worth potentially hurting yourself and starving for.  </p>
<p>In true, earnest interest, I would be interested in finding out.  Hearing exactly why the strikers feel so passionately about this issue might be constructive for the community, and I would certainly like to learn more about the thought process that went into the protest; in the midst of all these posts, I feel like that is one of the few things I havn&#8217;t learned, and what I would consider the most important.</p>
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		<title>By: David Davis-Van Atta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-440</link>
		<dc:creator>David Davis-Van Atta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-440</guid>
		<description>I should be sure that I clarify a mis-perception that I think is possible from my first post.  I am definitely not trying to criticize the hunger strike, nor esp. not to criticize the strikers themselves.  That would be altogether inappropriate for me to do, either in my position as Director of IR, nor (for me) personally.  If my post reads as if I do this, I want to be sure to say here that I did not mean to do so.  And I don&#039;t make such criticisms.

But I do draw an earnest, and an important question when it comes to the availability of good, relevant data and information.  Particularly when someone indicates that such information or data has either not been forthcoming, or simply is not available.  Because providing this type of info/data is the central task of my office (which is me!) and of the IR function.  IR, and others here, have done a great deal of work toward this goal, and have provided I think at least almost all of the relevant data asked for from a number of quarters in the Vassar community, have provided a great deal of directly relevant data and information on Vassar&#039;s finances, economies, and planning in many forums, meetings, and media over the past 12 months or so, including many this fall.

So my question of what info/data is missing arises from this central role of the IR function. I want to be sure that it is not heard as an incredulous question, or as an unfriendly one.  Rather, it should be heard as an earnest one.  This is what IR is here to provide.  To hold up the mirror.  To try not to distort it, nor to select who gets to look into it, and who does not.  Good information, for everyone who is interested, is critical at times such as these.  We can have different interpretations, views, feelings, ideas, and suggestions.  However, we should not be operating on our own, individualistic facts.  Nor should we be genuinely in the position of saying that relevant data have not been provided.  So I am concerned reading something that indicates this.  Good data/info supports good decision-making and planning.  Such information is IR&#039;s role.  IR&#039;s role is not to take sides.  And as such, in this case, it is decidedly not to criticize actors or actions, nor to sound incredulous or unfriendly.  Rather, to pose an honest question, because it is not clear to me what the missing data/information is.


David Davis-Van Atta
Director of Institutional Research</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should be sure that I clarify a mis-perception that I think is possible from my first post.  I am definitely not trying to criticize the hunger strike, nor esp. not to criticize the strikers themselves.  That would be altogether inappropriate for me to do, either in my position as Director of IR, nor (for me) personally.  If my post reads as if I do this, I want to be sure to say here that I did not mean to do so.  And I don&#8217;t make such criticisms.</p>
<p>But I do draw an earnest, and an important question when it comes to the availability of good, relevant data and information.  Particularly when someone indicates that such information or data has either not been forthcoming, or simply is not available.  Because providing this type of info/data is the central task of my office (which is me!) and of the IR function.  IR, and others here, have done a great deal of work toward this goal, and have provided I think at least almost all of the relevant data asked for from a number of quarters in the Vassar community, have provided a great deal of directly relevant data and information on Vassar&#8217;s finances, economies, and planning in many forums, meetings, and media over the past 12 months or so, including many this fall.</p>
<p>So my question of what info/data is missing arises from this central role of the IR function. I want to be sure that it is not heard as an incredulous question, or as an unfriendly one.  Rather, it should be heard as an earnest one.  This is what IR is here to provide.  To hold up the mirror.  To try not to distort it, nor to select who gets to look into it, and who does not.  Good information, for everyone who is interested, is critical at times such as these.  We can have different interpretations, views, feelings, ideas, and suggestions.  However, we should not be operating on our own, individualistic facts.  Nor should we be genuinely in the position of saying that relevant data have not been provided.  So I am concerned reading something that indicates this.  Good data/info supports good decision-making and planning.  Such information is IR&#8217;s role.  IR&#8217;s role is not to take sides.  And as such, in this case, it is decidedly not to criticize actors or actions, nor to sound incredulous or unfriendly.  Rather, to pose an honest question, because it is not clear to me what the missing data/information is.</p>
<p>David Davis-Van Atta<br />
Director of Institutional Research</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-438</guid>
		<description>David, you&#039;re absolutely right. I read an article in The Misc a couple of months ago (http://www.miscellanynews.com/2.1576/confusion-surrounds-recent-exchange-of-financial-data-1.2041264) that was so heavy and rich with important financial data that was actually provided to the writer by your office. It&#039;s clear that the data is there. Students have to just go looking for it. So for all you people complaining that there is transparency -- if you ACTUALLY have a specific question about the endowment or about our faculty size or our administrative bloat (which I doubt you do, since you&#039;re so poorly read on those issues anyway), then please, please e-mail David Davis-Van Atta. Read a Misc article. Look at the economy website. Just because you don&#039;t see what you&#039;re looking for right in front of your face doesn&#039;t mean it doesn&#039;t exist or that someone won&#039;t make it available to you. And don&#039;t be surprised when the actual numbers -- when the raw, indisputable data -- doesn&#039;t give you the perfect conspiracy theory you&#039;re looking for. No matter how much you want it to be, this administration is not evil -- the senior officers, Cappy and the Trustees are intelligent people who have invested their lives into pulling this College out of an economic crisis.

This actually touches on a huge problem with this hunger strike. 
1. These students say that need more data and transparency, but they can&#039;t talk about specifics, because a) they don&#039;t even know what data they would ask for, and b) because all the data is already there. As David said, &quot;just exactly what is it that is missing?&quot; 
2. These students say they want the 13 eliminated staff positions reinstated, but they won&#039;t acknowledge that nearly all 13 employees whose positions have been lost will find work at the College or elsewhere. 
3. These students say that the College is being run like a corporation, but when you ask them how that&#039;s so, they won&#039;t answer. Why? Because actually the College has taken an anti-corporate approach to cutting back. We did not cut jobs across the board. We did not take a percentage off of every department or every office. The President and the senior officers have what they call a &quot;messy way of doing things,&quot; in terms of time, imagination and constant rethinking. This kind of planning is not quick, it&#039;s not neat, it&#039;s not clean—and it&#039;s certainly not corporate. 
4. And finally, when you ask these students what the point of this strike is—as so many have done on this forum—they won&#039;t even give you a response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you&#8217;re absolutely right. I read an article in The Misc a couple of months ago (<a href="http://www.miscellanynews.com/2.1576/confusion-surrounds-recent-exchange-of-financial-data-1.2041264" rel="nofollow">http://www.miscellanynews.com/2.1576/confusion-surrounds-recent-exchange-of-financial-data-1.2041264</a>) that was so heavy and rich with important financial data that was actually provided to the writer by your office. It&#8217;s clear that the data is there. Students have to just go looking for it. So for all you people complaining that there is transparency &#8212; if you ACTUALLY have a specific question about the endowment or about our faculty size or our administrative bloat (which I doubt you do, since you&#8217;re so poorly read on those issues anyway), then please, please e-mail David Davis-Van Atta. Read a Misc article. Look at the economy website. Just because you don&#8217;t see what you&#8217;re looking for right in front of your face doesn&#8217;t mean it doesn&#8217;t exist or that someone won&#8217;t make it available to you. And don&#8217;t be surprised when the actual numbers &#8212; when the raw, indisputable data &#8212; doesn&#8217;t give you the perfect conspiracy theory you&#8217;re looking for. No matter how much you want it to be, this administration is not evil &#8212; the senior officers, Cappy and the Trustees are intelligent people who have invested their lives into pulling this College out of an economic crisis.</p>
<p>This actually touches on a huge problem with this hunger strike.<br />
1. These students say that need more data and transparency, but they can&#8217;t talk about specifics, because a) they don&#8217;t even know what data they would ask for, and b) because all the data is already there. As David said, &#8220;just exactly what is it that is missing?&#8221;<br />
2. These students say they want the 13 eliminated staff positions reinstated, but they won&#8217;t acknowledge that nearly all 13 employees whose positions have been lost will find work at the College or elsewhere.<br />
3. These students say that the College is being run like a corporation, but when you ask them how that&#8217;s so, they won&#8217;t answer. Why? Because actually the College has taken an anti-corporate approach to cutting back. We did not cut jobs across the board. We did not take a percentage off of every department or every office. The President and the senior officers have what they call a &#8220;messy way of doing things,&#8221; in terms of time, imagination and constant rethinking. This kind of planning is not quick, it&#8217;s not neat, it&#8217;s not clean—and it&#8217;s certainly not corporate.<br />
4. And finally, when you ask these students what the point of this strike is—as so many have done on this forum—they won&#8217;t even give you a response.</p>
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		<title>By: David Davis-Van Atta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>David Davis-Van Atta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-436</guid>
		<description>From above:  &quot;uppitier says:
December 9, 2009 at 6:26 pm

The cycle continues: no one can propose a viable alternative without all the data. The administration refuses to give all of the data. People who try to make a difference are blamed for not providing an alternative. And we continue to take the administrators’ word that there is no other option.&quot;

I find this not only a problematic statement, but one that is somewhat strange.  That key information and data relevant to this topic have not been provided.  I have both attended *many* meetings now that have walked very carefully through absolutely every vital relevant aspect of the current and upcoming future finances for Vassar, as well as having provided a great deal of the data for these meetings, for the economic website, etc.  I know for a fact that the Office of Institutional Research has provided all data for which it has been asked, by key committees, by key administrators, by the Board of Trustees, by the Priorities and Planning Committee, by students, by the Misc., and others.  It is hard to understand how someone can say that they have not been provided data/information relevant to the topic of Vassar&#039;s economies, employee base, etc.

Just exactly what is it that is missing?


David Davis-Van Atta
Director of Institutional Research</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From above:  &#8220;uppitier says:<br />
December 9, 2009 at 6:26 pm</p>
<p>The cycle continues: no one can propose a viable alternative without all the data. The administration refuses to give all of the data. People who try to make a difference are blamed for not providing an alternative. And we continue to take the administrators’ word that there is no other option.&#8221;</p>
<p>I find this not only a problematic statement, but one that is somewhat strange.  That key information and data relevant to this topic have not been provided.  I have both attended *many* meetings now that have walked very carefully through absolutely every vital relevant aspect of the current and upcoming future finances for Vassar, as well as having provided a great deal of the data for these meetings, for the economic website, etc.  I know for a fact that the Office of Institutional Research has provided all data for which it has been asked, by key committees, by key administrators, by the Board of Trustees, by the Priorities and Planning Committee, by students, by the Misc., and others.  It is hard to understand how someone can say that they have not been provided data/information relevant to the topic of Vassar&#8217;s economies, employee base, etc.</p>
<p>Just exactly what is it that is missing?</p>
<p>David Davis-Van Atta<br />
Director of Institutional Research</p>
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		<title>By: Royce Drake</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce Drake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-421</guid>
		<description>And so why should we dream only of what already is, instead of reaching for something better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And so why should we dream only of what already is, instead of reaching for something better.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-416</guid>
		<description>Matt Allan said: 
&quot;This is why it makes sense to have the entire community have equal say in this decision. By putting everyone on equal footing, it’ll be easiest to complete this mosaic and make the most-informed decision.&quot;

Royce Drake said:
&quot;Ultimately we want, as we have said over and over again, an EQUAL distribution of power in decision-making. You know… democracy.&quot;

Newsflash for you both: This institution, just like ALL institutions in the United States, is not a democracy. If you&#039;re looking for a college that puts students on an equal footing with administrators... well, I don&#039;t think they make colleges like that. Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Allan said:<br />
&#8220;This is why it makes sense to have the entire community have equal say in this decision. By putting everyone on equal footing, it’ll be easiest to complete this mosaic and make the most-informed decision.&#8221;</p>
<p>Royce Drake said:<br />
&#8220;Ultimately we want, as we have said over and over again, an EQUAL distribution of power in decision-making. You know… democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Newsflash for you both: This institution, just like ALL institutions in the United States, is not a democracy. If you&#8217;re looking for a college that puts students on an equal footing with administrators&#8230; well, I don&#8217;t think they make colleges like that. Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: 2010</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-414</guid>
		<description>The Board of Trustees has the right to question the actions of the administration, not students.  As a consumer, if you disagree with some aspect of a company&#039;s practices, the greatest power you have is to not buy the product.  If you disagree with the methods of the administration, you should consider finding another school that is more suitable to your particular needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Board of Trustees has the right to question the actions of the administration, not students.  As a consumer, if you disagree with some aspect of a company&#8217;s practices, the greatest power you have is to not buy the product.  If you disagree with the methods of the administration, you should consider finding another school that is more suitable to your particular needs.</p>
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		<title>By: friend</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-413</guid>
		<description>i find it really disturbing that so many people insist that students should not question the administration and the powers that be  - how could anyone have so much trust in administration? some people find it within themselves to question the power, while others blindly follow it. the cswg and the hunger strikers are asking questions because obviously there is a problem in this community. how dare someone say that it is not their job to question? we pay to go here! of COURSE they have the right to question the admins!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i find it really disturbing that so many people insist that students should not question the administration and the powers that be  &#8211; how could anyone have so much trust in administration? some people find it within themselves to question the power, while others blindly follow it. the cswg and the hunger strikers are asking questions because obviously there is a problem in this community. how dare someone say that it is not their job to question? we pay to go here! of COURSE they have the right to question the admins!</p>
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		<title>By: bob vance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>bob vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-409</guid>
		<description>If the hunger strikers are only doing this because they want to &quot;question everything,&quot; why do they presuppose that Vass is needlessly and cruelly firing workers? Questioning something, especially in a child-like way, indicates that you don&#039;t really know the full details of a situation and therefore are open to other outcomes. But saying you won&#039;t eat until layoffs have been cancelled shows you aren&#039;t questioning, but that you&#039;re suspicious, you&#039;re in opposition, but most importantly, that you&#039;re all-knowing when it comes to Vassar&#039;s finances. Shouldn&#039;t you be saying you won&#039;t eat until you have all the information to know, really know, that there was nothing else administrators could do? And take action afterward based upon the answers you find? Or do you agree with shooting first and asking questions later?

It&#039;s not that I necessarily disagree with what y&#039;all are doing and trying to accomplish. But I don&#039;t think you explained your thoughts and your positions well at all and I think you sort of need to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the hunger strikers are only doing this because they want to &#8220;question everything,&#8221; why do they presuppose that Vass is needlessly and cruelly firing workers? Questioning something, especially in a child-like way, indicates that you don&#8217;t really know the full details of a situation and therefore are open to other outcomes. But saying you won&#8217;t eat until layoffs have been cancelled shows you aren&#8217;t questioning, but that you&#8217;re suspicious, you&#8217;re in opposition, but most importantly, that you&#8217;re all-knowing when it comes to Vassar&#8217;s finances. Shouldn&#8217;t you be saying you won&#8217;t eat until you have all the information to know, really know, that there was nothing else administrators could do? And take action afterward based upon the answers you find? Or do you agree with shooting first and asking questions later?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that I necessarily disagree with what y&#8217;all are doing and trying to accomplish. But I don&#8217;t think you explained your thoughts and your positions well at all and I think you sort of need to.</p>
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		<title>By: Blair</title>
		<link>http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/2009/12/09/students-begin-hunger-strike-according-to-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Blair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.miscellanynews.com/newsroom/?p=671#comment-408</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t understand where all of these horribly nasty comments come from.  If you don&#039;t agree with the hunger strike, then don&#039;t participate.  If you want your opinions to be heard, then express them in a civil, intelligent manner.  Writing unnecessarily nasty comments gets you nowhere.  You present yourself both as dumb, for it seems that you do not know how to articulately express yourself without being nasty, and as a coward, for you refuse to attribute your nasty comments to yourself.  Instead, you choose to be anonymous.  I have no respect for these anonymous nasty commentators.  

Even if you believe that the hunger strike is &quot;stupid,&quot; as least realize that it is admirable for people to stand up for what they believe in.  Attacking people because they choose to express their beliefs is wrong.  Instead, try to foster an intellectual atmosphere and start a civil debate.  Seriously, kids, stop being so ridiculously nasty.  There is absolutely no need for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t understand where all of these horribly nasty comments come from.  If you don&#8217;t agree with the hunger strike, then don&#8217;t participate.  If you want your opinions to be heard, then express them in a civil, intelligent manner.  Writing unnecessarily nasty comments gets you nowhere.  You present yourself both as dumb, for it seems that you do not know how to articulately express yourself without being nasty, and as a coward, for you refuse to attribute your nasty comments to yourself.  Instead, you choose to be anonymous.  I have no respect for these anonymous nasty commentators.  </p>
<p>Even if you believe that the hunger strike is &#8220;stupid,&#8221; as least realize that it is admirable for people to stand up for what they believe in.  Attacking people because they choose to express their beliefs is wrong.  Instead, try to foster an intellectual atmosphere and start a civil debate.  Seriously, kids, stop being so ridiculously nasty.  There is absolutely no need for it.</p>
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